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Tonygreen

4-20-20

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zoot

i want some of these 👍🏼

great work @Tonygreen


I'm just a billiard ball that's chipped and scratched and soaked in smoke and wine.


Yeah, I'm a little too stoned to keep up with the times

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gorilla ganja

Sign me up as well. 4-20 seems like such a long wait though. 

Excellent job @Tonygreen  very few breeders put this kind of work in. Your dedication shows and is appreciated.

Is there any loss of vigor or fertility problems or is this avoided by back crossing instead of selfing?

 

Peace

GG

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Tonygreen
2 hours ago, gorilla ganja said:

Sign me up as well. 4-20 seems like such a long wait though. 

Excellent job @Tonygreen  very few breeders put this kind of work in. Your dedication shows and is appreciated.

Is there any loss of vigor or fertility problems or is this avoided by back crossing instead of selfing?

 

Peace

GG

 

 

Hey GG. From what I've seen back crossing to a heterozygous parent has helped avoid inbreeding depression. I haven't seen it overall in any GB line even advanced ones except vigor issues with the sour bubble recessives.

 

Back crossing to a mostly homozygous parent and vigor issues seem to arise much faster. Imho.

 

I cant create a pure homozygous line with back crossing alone. But now we have more homozygous p1 to work with.

 

Interestingly Tom Hill told me two separate inbred lines derived from same parent stock will avoid depression and reintroduce hybrid vigor if recombined. Almost 7 years later we're about to find out!

 

I'll release GB bx6 at the same time in a combo pack with these. One of the two lines will be taken to homozygous state. Half way there.

 

 

 

Edited by Tonygreen

When The Green Drops The Bullshit Stops

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Aspen

@Tonygreen you still have space on that list for me??? I'm Down for a pheno hunt.. I'm all set up at a lab to test 500 seed plants for sex...Great Work... 

Edited by Aspen

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Tonygreen

Should be plenty I hope. I finally got my water issue sorted. I stopped using it lol

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When The Green Drops The Bullshit Stops

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Tonygreen

The Gorilla Bubble group into 1 gal to veg a little more. All topped a few times. Little stressed from being root bound. Story of my life lol.

20200105_022842.jpg

20200105_020452.jpg


When The Green Drops The Bullshit Stops

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Tonygreen

GB male left, myco chem bx6 male right.

I'm in the chem twilight zone. Tripping me out on the similarities and bringing the whole picture together in my mind. 

 

 

20200113_005044.jpg

Same ratio of phenos in each line. Its crazy.

Look at the chem side runt! Saved to match a GB runt to do a recessive RIL version for later..

This shits a trip.

 

20200113_010955.jpg


When The Green Drops The Bullshit Stops

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Tonygreen

3 in front are unsexed myco bx6.

Yellow one is a GB bx3 for control.

Rest are GB bx5.

 

Away we go!

 

20200114_004731.jpg


When The Green Drops The Bullshit Stops

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Coastal

Very cool project! It's fun to see you taking it to the end as it's a crazy amount of work!

 

Really cool you got that other line too, that's going to make a really cool cross I bet if you can successfully combine them... classic old dog breeding techniques to avoid inbreeding depression and I bet it would be really helpful if more cannabis breeders followed these proven techniques. 

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Tonygreen

A couple full sib RIL crosses, full sib GB bx5 or selfed versions of either should be close to homozygous! I think the RIL will be super uniform. Were about to find out. The old techniques and math never fail.


When The Green Drops The Bullshit Stops

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Kind024

...recombinant inbred line?

Edited by Kind024

"Be the light that lights lights that light other lights." C.R. Jr.

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Tonygreen

Yes. A rare term in cannabis breeding. 🙂


When The Green Drops The Bullshit Stops

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shaggy
8 hours ago, Kind024 said:

...recombinant inbred line?

Check tom hill breeding for reference.

I think I have a paper in the library, check my signature for that.

If I may guess, it is taking a heavily inbred line  where some vigor is lost and introducing new vigor with some of the original genes.

Tom hill will explain it much better.

On 12/8/2019 at 3:21 PM, Tonygreen said:

Interestingly Tom Hill told me two separate inbred lines derived from same parent stock will avoid depression and reintroduce hybrid vigor if recombined. Almost 7 years later we're about to find out!

Or this ....LOL


Methods of inducing SAR Local Acquired Resistance and Induced Systemic Resistance                                   I.P.M. INTEGRATED PEST MANAGEMENT

                Do plants need silicon?                   ODA finds bottled microbes with little live organisms                          Welcome to Z-Library!

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gorilla ganja

@shaggy  Maybe I missed it, I could not see anything about Tom Hill breeding in all your links. Can you point me in the right direction please.
@Tonygreen  Same question to you, Is there a good place to look for info about breeding techniques from Tom that you can point me to.
It's -39C/-38F  here and I need something to read. I'm waiting for your book on how to breed Cannabis properly @Tonygreen when you going to put 1 out? 🙂

Peace GG

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Coastal

It's old school breeding theory at its base... if you inbreeding a line too far it looses health and vigor(way faster in animals especially performance animals..) but if you out cross you dilute the Gene's... theory is that you split the line and breed for two different traits like one pair of siblings you select the most resinous, while the other pair you select the strongest odor of a desirable terpene in the line... then you take each and re breed them 4 or more times till you have a resinous line and a fragrant line... but them you combine them and although they are 100% related you get a renewed vigour and hopefully get closer to a F1 X style expression of 50% being a even mix of both traits and then 25% resinous and 25% odorous.

 

In theory... and the closer you get to homozygous the more vigorous and F1 like the cross should Express.. 

 

And yes too few "breeders" in both the dog and cannabis breeders... the reptile guys really go into extremes in odds and potential outcomes if your bored @gorilla ganja check out the king snake forums or any other ones.. the ball python guys especially are insane!

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Coastal

That's the shitty part about today's breeding scene.. the best breeding plants are now the accidental S1 seeds... these S1 or even S2..3..4 plants are doing their part by tightening in on these good Gene's like OG... maybe why the Ghost cut breeds so well???... but most people are just crossing this ti that then the next... basically diluting all the Gene's and bringing up a big pool of recessive random Gene's... the use of these S1 plants at least seems to bring about some true breeding blocks back into the mainstream!

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zombug

@Coastal Kingsnake forums!!! I haven’t been on there in 15 years! Talk about a blast from the past. Reptile and dog breeding is where I got my introduction to selective breeding. 
 

The manner of breeding you described is what I learned to be best. The split tangents recombine with such vigor due to there being matching alleles within the plants. The use of s1’s is very interesting. We cannot use that technique in the animal kingdom. I’ve always seen s1’s as a way of blowing up the genetics of the mom, showing multitudes of allele recombinations, allowing each to shine as dominant. 

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shaggy
9 hours ago, gorilla ganja said:

  Maybe I missed it, I could not see anything about Tom Hill breeding in all your links. Can you point me in the right direction please.

The library is not properly organized, it may or may not be there.

I do not have a direct link to his work.


Methods of inducing SAR Local Acquired Resistance and Induced Systemic Resistance                                   I.P.M. INTEGRATED PEST MANAGEMENT

                Do plants need silicon?                   ODA finds bottled microbes with little live organisms                          Welcome to Z-Library!

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Tonygreen

Almost at week 1. Yellowed one is the GB bx3 control plant.

IMG_20200118_002551_995.jpg


When The Green Drops The Bullshit Stops

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Tonygreen
On 1/14/2020 at 11:59 PM, Coastal said:

That's the shitty part about today's breeding scene.. the best breeding plants are now the accidental S1 seeds... these S1 or even S2..3..4 plants are doing their part by tightening in on these good Gene's like OG... maybe why the Ghost cut breeds so well???... but most people are just crossing this ti that then the next... basically diluting all the Gene's and bringing up a big pool of recessive random Gene's... the use of these S1 plants at least seems to bring about some true breeding blocks back into the mainstream!

 

So true. I'm always looking for a decent s1 because it's the closest to inbred material you get ha. Sad. I had that thread long ago encouraging everyone to s2 or s3 something then we could all make some nice clean f1s.

I'm hoping like hell I get some of hammerheads sour dubb s3 hes working on. I still have 2 s2 seeds ha. I also have a couple s2 sour bubble beans from a s1 I grew out. Sour b usuallys has a bean or two for me. Fuck this is what its come to. Lmao.

 

 

Edited by Tonygreen

When The Green Drops The Bullshit Stops

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