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shaggy

Hey, would you take a look at the samples Sam the Skunkman sent in. 68 Varieties

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shaggy

I found it crazy what was shown on the phylos genetic reports.

I think these are cultivars that are truly unique and have been patented because they are so rare.

Guatemala Quetzalita has a rare genotype 

Nothing else like it according to phylos.

I think he claimed these for himself while polluting the gene pool to prevent others from having the same genetics.

What say you?

 

https://phylos.bio/org/7vodyeor/david-watson

 

Can anyone find seeds of any of these varieties?

Edited by shaggyballs

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Coastal

I think he was heavily in the scene at all the times these gems came up, and being there having a name gets you things because people want to impress you/share etc.., that and he has been to a lot of places in the world on canna related stuff... 

 

i know people that that know him and have heard all the sides.. either way is went down he still brought a lot and has worked with a lot of people to push further into genes, hash, legalization,etc etc

 

have you ever seen the hash out of his separator sifter thing... 

 

cool to see he has some of these pure lines still.. hopefully it all ends well and we get to try them or they stay preserved at least? Wonder what else he has stashed away?

 

thank for this though!

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shaggy

Tian Shui Giansu China

Is this the 2,700-year-old strain from northern China.

https://phylos.bio/variety/CRT-1698/tian-shui-giansu-china

Edited by shaggyballs

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gorilla ganja

I'm not sure about these particular seeds, but many of the samples Phylos tests are not even viable seeds. They just contain DNA that helps to paint the big picture.

If they are viable and can be used to expand the gene pool, that's a good thing. Breeders have been bottle necking genes for far to long.

Bag appeal and short flower times have driven many valuable and unique strains to extinction. So sad really.

 

Peace GG

 

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shaggy

I was wondering if those genetics were taken off the market?

14 minutes ago, gorilla ganja said:

If they are viable and can be used to expand the gene pool, that's a good thing.

Or sam could own the breeding rights to all the most valuable best landrace breeding stock in the world.

Mr. Watson is one of the world’s top cannabis breeding experts and is credited by many with assembling the world’s most comprehensive cannabis seed library.


He is also responsible for securing protection (breeders’ rights) for 29 cultivars under the International Union for the Protection of New Varieties of Plants.”

This information seems to confict with eachother

Any Phylos Certified variety shows up in our public database, meaning anyone can explore its genetic makeup, 

https://delta9analytics.nl/phylos-certified/

Edited by shaggyballs

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gorilla ganja

 As far as the number of cultivars Sam has submitted. He openly asked for samples of unique and rare seeds to be sent to him so he could have them tested.

He is not a hoarder of cultivars as many strains are related to work he has shared with the world, Both "Hemp" and Cannabis. I would bet there are more hybrids with Skunk than any other strain.

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shaggy
Just now, gorilla ganja said:

I would bet there are more hybrids with Skunk than any other strain.

Or he contaminated all the areas he visited while collecting genetics across the globe.

Taking with him what would soon be the only pure form of cannabis from that area.


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Coastal

Interesting that on the Sk1 phylos it listed Colombian as furthest from related... I thought it was suppose to be a building block of Sk1?

 

i think a lot of the contamination of the gene pool has happened time and time again with not only foreigners but locals wanting to improve the economic viability or improve on their local genetics not realizing the long term repercussions...

Edited by Coastal

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shaggy
13 minutes ago, gorilla ganja said:

He is not a hoarder of cultivars as many strains

So do you think he will release these prize ultra pure landrace genetics for the public to enjoy for the rest of time.

Or is he more likely to keep them for his own agenda?🤔

Off topic a bit but relevent

Seed breeders from this point on will need to retain some form of exclusivity for the genetics they develop, meaning patenting and licensing, which, in turn, means a cultivator and a retailer can legally associate their branded products with the appropriate breeder. It's all about to get very complicated.

But legalization will bring advancements, too, such as tissue culture, and cellular division and replication (not genetic modification), which will allow for the production of millions of like specimens that are all-female, sterile in that there are no bugs or disease infestations, and are perfect examples of a given cultivar. These plants will be patented, branded and will come with exclusive licensing agreements and contracts for royalties, which again leads to exclusivity.

 

I recently had a conversation with someone (who prefers to remain anonymous) who was asked to attend meetings with representatives and/or ex-employees of global agribusiness Syngenta Corp. (He was unclear on who all the attendees were.) The impression this person was left with was that Syngenta was definitely investigating the genetics of the cannabis plant.

 

Keeping in mind that research officially began in 1990, 26 years ago, it amazes me how fast everything cannabis-related is about to accelerate globally. Therefore, when cannabis is rescheduled and if federal restrictions are ever lifted, the legal realm of cannabis will quickly become very murky and very profitable for attorneys. And it will become very expensive to protect your IP.

Edited by shaggyballs

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gorilla ganja
13 minutes ago, Coastal said:

Interesting that on the Sk1 phylos it listed Colombian as furthest from related... I thought it was suppose to be a building block of Sk1?

 

That's exactly why mapping the DNA and categorizing with something other than ridiculous names is so important. Especially with popular names being given to any other strain just to sell it.

 

@shaggyballs   Yes I think he will share genetics, like he has in the past. There is no value to hoarding. If he makes money like any other breeder. Good for him.

I think any breeder that put's in the work and knows what they are doing deserves to make money off it. We the People will decide what is valuable and will pay accordingly.

Most people, me included, have no idea how hard it is to make a true breeding cultivar.

Edited by gorilla ganja

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Coastal

But even here, the first thing we do with any new variety is x it to everything,lol... he probably has kept a lot of pure stuff to himself to continue his own breeding or commercial potential high... 

 

even if a a lot of these people are fairly “self serving” or went through some things that earned them labels.. DW, RClarck,nevil  etc all gave to the community and put themselves out there in a time of extreme risk and persecution.. we can all bitch about what they did with the genes and what is happening now, but at the time I think it is amazing what they did and how it opened up for us all through the 90’s to now..

 

even marc emery, who I feel very little personal respect towards as a person, did huge good and single handedly passed out soooo many genes all over the world it is awesome! I bought my first packs of seeds from him directly when I was 14 after a few failed try’s growing out old Thai and afghani seeds from bricks some kids parents had,lol!

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shaggy
20 minutes ago, Coastal said:

DW, RClarck,nevil  etc all gave to the community and put themselves out there in a time of extreme risk and persecution

How were they able to escape persecution?

Why were they allowed a head start on these projects.

It would be nice if we did have all the facts, as you said perhaps with time.

The snitch story seems to make good sense but who really knows.

And what really happened with the true skunk weed, he says it is gone.

There was nothing like it ever and the greatest breeder known to man used skill to breed it out and never kept a copy????

That part sound far fetched to me.🤔

Also why was he so special to get an exemption and authorization for cannabis cultivation from the Dutch Government

HortaPharm was allowed to continue its activities despite the expiry of its license?

 

Edited by shaggyballs

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zombug
6 minutes ago, shaggyballs said:

How were they able to escape persecution?

Why were they allowed a head start on these projects.

It would be nice if we did have all the facts, as you said perhaps with time.

The snitch story seems to make good sense but who really knows.

And what really happened with the true skunk weed, he says it is gone.

There was nothing like it ever and the greatest breeder known to man used skill to breed it out and never kept a copy????

That part sound far fetched to me.🤔

 

 

 

You speak too much logic.lol There was paperwork produced on Sam at one point, so I think any assumptions in that area is fair game. As for being the breeder of skunk, that is funny. RKS doesn't come from any skunk Sam ever touched. These guys' stories are almost over, and they are just cashing in, and cashing out. There's old school guys that could debunk so much, but they are never getting on the boards. Or maybe they do. 

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gorilla ganja
14 minutes ago, shaggyballs said:

How were they able to escape persecution?

Why were they allowed a head start on these projects

 

They escaped persecution the same way the rest of us have, lucky and smart.

 

They may have or may not have had shady pasts but all the people you mentioned were pioneers with the cannabis industry long before it was legal and they were able to come out of the shadows. And like @Coastal mentioned, whether or not we like these pioneers they all helped advance cannabis to where it is today and shared (sold) genetics along the way.

I hope some of the good breeders on here don't develop the haters and drama as they get famous and make more money.

 

Peace GG 

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shaggy
8 minutes ago, zombug said:

There was paperwork produced on Sam at one point,

Is this what you speak of??

On December 5, 1997, an article published by Bas Bartman and Gert Hage, in the Dutch monthly magazine HP / De Tijd, confirms the information given during a radio broadcast of the VPRO, on October 3, 1997. 

The double identity of David Watson / Sam Selezny is confirmed.

Edited by shaggyballs

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shaggy
5 minutes ago, gorilla ganja said:

They escaped persecution the same way the rest of us have, lucky and smart.

But as we know too well some escape a different way.

It is also stated in the article by Bartman and Hage that Watson's installations were several times discovered by the police. 

Each time, employees were arrested but Watson and one of his accomplices then, Michael Taylor / alais Michael Rich, always came out unscathed. 

24 minutes ago, shaggyballs said:

Why were they allowed a head start on these projects.

The lawyer Mario Lap - who works at the time for the Dutch Institute of Alcohol and Drugs 

Mario Lap, in Brussels, smacked on the shoulder of Hedy d'Acona, MEP and former Dutch Minister of Health: "Hedy, can you tell me why your ministry gave permission to cultivate cannabis? to Sam Selezny / alias David Watson? Acona did not know why such permission had been granted by the Director General of Health, Dr. RJ Samsom, on September 16, 1994. Mario Lap commented: "I have not been able to find out how this happened. had passed. Very strange; a little scary even " .


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zombug

No, there was at one point some real court documents provided. I'd have saved them, but I honestly was never really interested on that level. I was all about the chems back then.

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shaggy

Let's summarize, then, now the cannabinic fairy tale that, in the space of a few months, has seen the creation of one of the biggest monsters of the biopiracy of cannabis on the planet. 

Geoffrey Guy and Brian Whittle create GW Pharm in 1998 - after connecting with David Watson in January 1998 .

In the process, they ask for authorization of cultivation of cannabis to the Government.

 On April 30, 1998, GW Pharm officially signed a partnership with HortaPharm's David Watson and Robert Clarke - a providential partnership because there is no pirated collection of cannabis in England.

 

 The partnership is thus contracted well before the official authorization issued by the Ministry of the Interior and the Ministry of Health, on June 11, 1998. 

In July, the first cannabis seeds (arrivals from Holland in armored convoy) are sown under glass in a fortified enclosure of barbed wire and surveillance cameras. In January 1999, a crop of 5,000 cannabis plants was collected. 

The objective is, then, very quickly, to put in culture 20 000 plants which will be cloned from the first ones. In June 1999, an application was placed in Canada for the opening of a subsidiary of GW Pharm. 

 

 The second partnership agreement between GW Pharm and HortaPharm is signed on 19 July 2000. It involves the payment of £ 200,000 in addition to a monthly payment of £ 25,000 over 24 months from 30 April 1998 in addition to royalties on products marketed by GW Pharm.

All this stinks of corruption and collusion at the highest levels of the UK administration. 

The collusion is such that GW Pharm has even received £ 10 million in grants from public money to bolster its bad cash.

Today, and 18 years later, GW Pharm produces, in ultra-secret installations, some tens of tons of cannabis, every year. 

 

Geoffrey Guy said in 2013: " We are indeed the largest legal cannabis grower in the world. 

The company employs around 200 people and generates a turnover of around 50 million euros - an official turnover, at least.

 GW Pharm distributes cannabis extracts such as Sativex and Epidiolex all over the world. For more details on the financial scam that constitute these "medicinal extracts" of cannabis, I refer readers to my very long article "The Epic of Cannabinoids: Tulsi to Ganja".

 

Who are the distributors / industrial partners of GW Pharm in the world?

 

In England, and in Canada, it is the infamous biocidal multinational Bayer (a distribution contract supposedly bringing GW $ 60 million to England and $ 14 million to Canada). 

 In the countries of Africa, Asia (except China and Japan) and the Middle East, it is the infamous biocidal multinational Novartis / Syngenta (a distribution contract bringing back $ 33 million to GW). 

 In Israel, it is Neopharm, (formerly OncoMed), which is a subsidiary of Insys Therapeutics. 

In Japan, it is the pharmaceutical company Otsuka.

 In Latin America, it is Ipsen whose CEO is Christian de la Tour, (also in the turnover of Rythm Pharmaceutical). Ipsen is a subsidiary of Mayroy SA, a Luxembourg holding company under the control of the Beaufour family.

 

Who distributes Sativex in China?

 It could be that David Watson and his gang, in all discretion  since in 2000, GW Pharm surrendered its rights to HortaPharm for China, on a non-exclusive basis - as stipulated on an official GW Pharm document (Chapter 8, paragraph 11 / e). 

 

 

The three key concepts that we will now address, in the context of this article / cannabis, concerning HortaPharm and GW Pharm, are the following: biopiracy, destruction of the genetic inheritance andpatenting of newly introduced chimeras. 

 

The traditional and open-pollinated varieties of cannabis - the fruit of thousands of years of coevolution between the plant and the human being - are confiscated by the industrial mafia. 

These varieties are then completely deconstructed, fragmented and destroyed through various modern techniques (including forced self-fertilization). The new chimeric varieties obtained (F1 hybrids, mutagenic varieties, "feminized" varieties, transgenic varieties) are then patented for the benefit of the pharmaceutical industry.

 

This is the same strategy that has been put in place since the beginning of the 20th century in all sectors of world agriculture.

 Establishment of official catalogs of varieties around 1905 in France.Emergence of the huge scam of F1 varieties of corn by Pioneer HiBred, circa 1920, whose owner is Wallace - who later became agriculture minister and vice president of the USA.

 Creation of UPOV in 1961, by the Paris Convention, which initiates the acquisition of all the seedsmen of the world by a handful of multinationals of agro-petro-pharmaco-chemistry. 

Prohibition to cultivate varieties not listed in national official catalogs. Confiscation of the genetic resources of peasants and gardeners - whose nightmarish apotheosis is the Svalbard morgue in Norway - under the aegis of Monsanto, Bill Gates, Bayer, Syngenta, etc.


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Coastal

As far as I know a few people where charged and escaped the states.. Sam just seemed to have stayed more public and so more of those has stayed in public eye... in the early 90’s the Dutch scene was pretty wide open... they had tours of the plants and grows... big seed projects have been talked about very openly... I think people forget that you could be more out in the open in the early 80’s but as the states locked down the people that left knew a lot and flourished in countries that where a bit behind in laws and enforcement like Amsterdam and Canada...

 

and yeah if if you are at the top chances are you aren’t the guy caught holding the watering hose or running a cash register... with a bit of $ and a good lawyer.. all these guys blew up huge fields in Amsterdam then Switzerland etc etc... people want to work with them.. they have a name, are at conferences etc it all happens fast and why wouldn’t they be trying to plant fields of weed?lol I know they did a huge haze hunt on Jamaica .. for 20k you could go walk the field and pick a cut I heard... after they selected their top picks.

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shaggy

According to David Watson, it is not a collection of cannabis varieties that he sold to GW Pharm: it is the "legal supply of pharmaceutical grade germplasm", namely "a legal supply of germplasm of pharmaceutical quality. "   If it's David Watson who says it!

 

At a cannabis symposium held in Vancouver in 1997, David Watson said his goal was to prevent cannabis growers from cloning or replicating seeds from the varieties created in Amsterdam Square. 

 

The testimony of Nevil Shoenmakers, on a forum in 2010, validates all charges of biopiracy and monopoly against David Watson:

" That's right. I already heard Sam [David Watson] whining that he should receive royalties from all those to whom they sold seeds and who would have used his genetics: 50% for pure lines and 25% for hybrids. And that after he had sold you seeds more expensive than gold in the first place. By his own admission, he never worked with the Haze variety until the 1970s. All the good Haze seeds I worked with were prior to 1970; where did they come from, and would Sam actually be one of the Haze brothers? It seems that Sam expects a lot of respect for his ability to get seeds from competent people and sell them to others. In fact, this is undoubtedly his greatest expertise.

I got 7 plants from 2000 seeds and they were all different. What was the pure variety, really? His only goal is to generate royalties and I think I will call him, from now on, "Monsanto Sam".


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Coastal

That is the thing I noticed is as these people gain noteriety and start to travel telling people how to grow or selling seeds... they actually become less connected to their roots and contacts and actually loose all the things that brought them there... being access to genetics, grow knowledge etc..  but it does give you access to money and people with lots of it!

 

i think that a lot of it is just rich corporations trying to cash in are getting sold a lot of bs from the people with the most experience selling it... we will find out though!

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shaggy

Oh and if Skunkman was sharing his genetic with the public, he breeding skills must suck real bad cause all I ever here is my skunk hybrid went hermi on me.

So if he is the greates breeder to have ever lived, where is his top shelf stuff?

GW Pharm maybe.

I think so.


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Enoch Warlock

I don't know about international laws but in the US, this has no teeth.  International Union for the Protection of New Varieties of Plants 

The courts ruled long ago that you cannot get patent or proprietary protection on ANYTHING that exists naturally in the world SO No one will EVER get a patent on a plant unless it contains a majority of synthetic genes.  This is why the Pharma industry doesn't research medicine derived from naturally occurring DNA.

 

It is a travesty to me that legalization is turning our mostly communal and sharing community into a bunch of Capitalist Pigs.  I hope they all go broke trying to patent something Mother Nature gave us.  Shame Shame Shame on all those Fuckers and any of you who decide to go that way!

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chasenakes
10 minutes ago, Enoch Warlock said:

I don't know about international laws but in the US, this has no teeth.  International Union for the Protection of New Varieties of Plants 

The courts ruled long ago that you cannot get patent or proprietary protection on ANYTHING that exists naturally in the world SO No one will EVER get a patent on a plant unless it contains a majority of synthetic genes.  This is why the Pharma industry doesn't research medicine derived from naturally occurring DNA.

 

It is a travesty to me that legalization is turning our mostly communal and sharing community into a bunch of Capitalist Pigs.  I hope they all go broke trying to patent something Mother Nature gave us.  Shame Shame Shame on all those Fuckers and any of you who decide to go that way!

 

While I'm as green as weed to the breeding and seed selling community, my instincts tell me that legalization will make home growing, collection and protection of varieties more important than prior.

 

Agribiz is going to turn cannabis into the next corn.

Edited by chasenakes

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knucklehead bob
13 minutes ago, Enoch Warlock said:

It is a travesty to me that legalization is turning our mostly communal and sharing community into a bunch of Capitalist Pigs.

 

A bunch-o-commie pinko fags born outta wed-lock slime  🤪  

 

 

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