Jump to content
BobbyMurda

Hey guys

Recommended Posts

BobbyMurda

Hey guys new to forums people call me Bob O

And i used to grow i am now getting back to it.

Any questions feel free to ask.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kind024

Greetings and welcome to the lab @BobbyMurda.

 

I have a question...or two.

 

What do you think about the regular addition of humates to soil and what might be some of the long term attributes, positive and/or negative? 

 

I've been trying to figure this out...maybe you can help? ...as long as your not a humate salesman!

  • Like 2
  • Haha 2
  • Nice Job 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BobbyMurda

Thanks everyone, kind024 i really don't have an answer for you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
BobbyMurda

Thanks guys

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
blues147

Hey welcome to the lab and believe me I couldn't answer that question either, lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Coastal

Welcome to the lab @BobbyMurda

 

@Kind024, humates up the CEC of the medium and also raise the organic content of the medium.

 

over time this could lead to heavy dense soil that is capable of holding a high amount of food value, and also mycorrhizal and bacterial life.

 

if you have a high draining, low CEC medium with little organic content this could help build up that feed/ water/ organic life retaining properties, but if you have a heavy dense slow draining and high CEC/organic medium it may compound the problems if your food is off or the soil is staying to damp etc.

 

thats my basic understanding anyways..

  • Like 4
  • Great Advice 1
  • Nice Job 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Kind024
19 hours ago, Coastal said:

Welcome to the lab @BobbyMurda

 

@Kind024, humates up the CEC of the medium and also raise the organic content of the medium.

 

over time this could lead to heavy dense soil that is capable of holding a high amount of food value, and also mycorrhizal and bacterial life.

 

if you have a high draining, low CEC medium with little organic content this could help build up that feed/ water/ organic life retaining properties, but if you have a heavy dense slow draining and high CEC/organic medium it may compound the problems if your food is off or the soil is staying to damp etc.

 

thats my basic understanding anyways..

 

Thanks @Coastal, I always appreciate your educated input, its far a few between these days brother. 

 

My understanding of humates parallels this at the moment. However along with all the above attrubutes humates also make heavy metals more available and can inhibit the formation of new minerals beacuse of their binding properties. The part that i'm curious about is that humates are on a cycle of hundreds of years. Organic matter is on a 1,500 year cycle before its reaches pure carbon....that's after the fulvic acid stage, which is about 700+ years down the line from it's original form. Under controlled lab conditions these humates are breaking down at the rate of 0.3% a year.

How fast is this building up in a container situation? 

Does quality humus have the correct ratios of humates all ready to go?

 

From my understanding humic and fulvic molecules don't get used up like cations and don't flush easily...even though they create strong bonds they are pretty radical. They can interchange radically in the soil during times of moisture fluctuation causing lock-out issues. Humic and fulvic acids (humates) are found everywhere in organic matter. 

 

My buddy is an organic garlic seed farmer with 2 acre no-till plots on a 3 year rotation. So each plot rests with cover for 2 years before it's replanted. The land was a prarie grass field before he started working it. He applied humates once in 10 years. His soil tests/ratios are right in the sweet spot year after year. 

 

I was leaning toward the addition of humates for unhealthy soil thats lost it's humus/humate component after years of over tillage and poor farming practice.

 

My uneducated concern is that we'll start to see issues from the over use of humates in the years to come...

Edited by Kind024

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Coastal

I agree 100%, @Kind024 but there is that balance, like you said all organic matter is made up of humates, and that is the rich life holding part of “good” agricultural ground.

These humates are fist built with quick cycling plants like grasses then shrubs then trees, so I think that slow break down is important in nature to ensure food for a long time for all the life as forests developed out of the thicker more humic rich soil as time goes on...

 

the ph also drops? I don’t understand it but I don’t think in a container garden with low enough cec you have to worry as much as fields because you can actually run out so much run off flushing.

i only add mine in early veg, and find actual fresh humid matter like manure or castings is better than bottled humic.. fulvic I have always liked as a foliar.. not sure if having extra humid and fulvic would up heavy metals in the plant... if it did would they burn or be left in the ash... I know I feel the best about smoking healthy plant matter with minimal sprays of any questionable nature.. be it organic or chemical.. seems to me like healthy plants with healthy roots burn and taste better than if they are off in any point...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use Privacy Policy.