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Limos

Michigan Prop 1

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Limos
13 minutes ago, knucklehead bob said:

Do you really believe people will no longer be locked up with MiLegalise ?

 

 It’s obvious that people will stil be locked up. I do think less people will be locked up. 

 

Im down with regulate like a tomato plant but....& here’s my point...I have yet to see a proposal that will get a majority vote from the people of Michigan that doesn’t involve taxation & regulation. It’s a fuckin hard pill to swallow and everyone can lament about how things should be however that not change a thing. I really don’t know what the answer is but am open to hearing some ideas. 

 

Ill tell you this, when I think of people getting fucked with for simple possession this looks more appealing than waiting another election cycle. 

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imiubu

@Limos  I am going over the proposal with a friend who is knowledgeable in 'legalese' to explain in laymans terms my issues with this initiative. 

I will then break it down here.  Give me a few days 🙂

I am continuing my work with the idea of abrogate.  However we have reorganized, tweeked the language and changed our name.  Due to the

fiasco of the 2 previous "abrogate" ballot initiatives, no initiative of this type will be on Nov. Ballot.  It is a huge indicator of the people of MI waking

up to the piece of shit Prop 1 is by how many who were once supporters coming over to support what will be ran simply as "End Prohibition Michigan".

Just because Prop 1 is the first "legalization" ballot initiative we have had to actually make it to the ballot... do we need to accept it?  NO  Do we need

it that bad to then vote it in?  NO. 

I think the people of MI can come up with a better plan in order to not sign over our demise to gov't.

Here is one small example that should raise serious concern.  The fact that they have divied out just where this great new influx of $$ (at the fleecing

of the people) will be appropriated.

 

Sec. 1

4

.

1.

The marihuana regulation

fund is created in the state treasury

.

The department

of treasury

shall deposit a

ll money collected

under sec

tion

13

of this act

and

the department shall deposit

all fees

collected in the fund. The state treasurer shall di

rect the investment of the fund

and shall credit

the fund interest and earnings from fund

investments

.

The

department

shall administer the fund for auditing purposes.

Money in the fund

shall

not lapse

to the general fund.

2.

Funds for the initial activities of the department

to implement

this act shall be appropriated from the general fund. The department shall repay any

amount appropriated under this subsection from proceeds in the fund.

3.

T

he

department shall expend money in the fund

first for the implementation, administration, and enforc

ement of this act,

and second

,

until 2022

or

for at least two years

,

to provide $

20 million

annually to one or more

clinical trials

that are approved by the United States

f

ood and

d

rug

a

dministration

and

sponsored by a non

-

profit organization or researcher within an academic institution

researching the efficacy of marihuana in treating the medical

conditions of

United States

a

rmed

s

erv

ic

es veterans

and prevent

ing

veteran suicide

. Upon appropriation, u

nexpended balances must

be allocated as

follows:

(a)

15

% to municipalities in which

a

mari

huana

retail store o

r

a marihuana microbusiness is located

, allocated in proportion to the number of

marihuana

retail stores and marihuana microbusinesses

within the municipality;

(b) 15

% to counties in which a marihuana retail store or a marihuana mi

crobusiness is located, allocated in proportion to the number of marihuana

retail stores and marihuana microbusinesses within the county;

(c) 35

%

to the school aid fund to be used for K

-

12 education; and

(d) 35

% to the

Michigan transportation fund

to be

used for the repair and maintenance of roads and bridges.

 

 

If this doesn't raise concerns... IDK what to say.

MI taxpayers are taxed pretty heavily and a portion of those taxes are already earmarked for road/ bridge/ infrastructure maintence.

Hmm... okay.... just where is that money going?  Why is our infrastructure in such ill repair?  What prompts me to believe that 'new $$'

coming in will be appropriated as it's meant to be?  IMHO it will go where it has always gone... into someone's pocket.

 

Thinking that a starting tax of 6% sales and 10% excise (sin) tax is hunky dory is erroneous imo.  I have absolutely no doubt that the

powers that be will continue to raise those taxes and this will create a larger underground/ black market in which to again criminalize

and incarcerate citizens that are already struggling.

 

Corporate weed is just wrong.

 

 

 

 

@knucklehead bob has already voiced a few of my most important concerns however.

 

 

We have not announced the End Prohibition Michigan campaign.  Hopefully by the end of the month we will be ready to submit the language to

the Board of Canvassers.  Do I think it has a chance?  Hell yes, or I wouldn't be involved.  IF Prop 1 is voted in, soon people will realize how bad

we got fucked and will flock to support reasonable cannabis reform. 

 

I'll be back 😉

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imiubu

A few more points come to mind;

 

Prop 1 is a "Legislative Initiative" which in essence allows our fickle and always fucking the people over Legislative Branch to change anything

they want at any time they want with only a majority vote.  Hmm yeah, cause for concern imo.

 

A Constitutional Initiative (ie... MMMP) takes a 3/4 vote from our Legislative Branch to make any alterations.

 

I think MI can do much better even if we do end up with a "tax and regulate" proposal we can construct it to protect "We the People" of MI

in a much better manner than this piece of garbage that only caters to gov't and corporate entities.  Much like Ohio voting down that original

pos that was first proposed.

 

We do have a choice to say no to shit proposals. js.

 

Even if I were not working towards EPM... this would still be my position.

 

Edit;

Most of us do not fully understand these types of proposals as they are written in the language of Lawyers.  There is an entire

"read between the lines" in effect here that many do not understand.  We as laymen may read this and think "hey, that sounds

pretty good!"  We tend to read it "as is" when the reason these are written as they are... is to confuse us as we are not aware of

the pitfalls of the language itself.  It takes people with some knowledge of law and legalese to comprehend such language and

that my friends is not even a small fraction of people who vote.

 

My concerns all stem from common sense and experience, not from any understanding of legal terms.

Anytime a piece of language states they will "allow" any dang thing.... it is well advised imho to BEWARE...

your about to get fucked.

Edited by imiubu

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Limos

Yeah I’ve read all that still not sure how I am personally getting fucked as the proposal sits right now. Perhaps I’m missing something? 

 

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that if MI could’ve done better it would’ve done so by now. I hope to be proven wrong & I’ll support a good proposal best I can. 

 

There’s talk & implications about corporate greed, shady politicians, & back door deals. While I’m with you 100% on that I have to say, most people (not all) that I have met in the medical community & the greater cannabis community wouldn’t throw a bucket of water on you if you were on fire unless it benefited them somehow. The people in power are not the only ones that are greedy and time after time it’s people in our own community that have fucked us with their greed & disregard for anyone else but themselves. 

 

Also you guys keep bringing up OH? Was OH proposal similar? There’s wasn’t room for any home grows at all was there? 

 

Let me take a step step back for a minute...thinking of family and friends that do not have a med card & might get popped for simple possession...is this prop so bad? Also if the will of the people is to decriminalize & not regulate wouldn’t it be ok to pass this now with decriminalize efforts being worked on for the future? I’ll assume that the organization your working with @imiubu will shoot for a constitutional amendment therefore squashing any pervious law? 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Limos

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imiubu

I hear you @limos, I do.  There is greed is abounding all around us and often with in our inner circles unfortunately.

 

From my own personal perspective, I am on disability that is based off my working credit hours.  I worked at low paying low skilled jobs

since the age of 15.  Oh, I had plenty of credit hours to qualify however low paying jobs equate to low disability payments.  If folks

knew just how much I live on, they would most likely wonder how I even survive.  Believe me it is a test in budgeting, bartering, doing

all that I can for myself and living very frugally at best.  I try to grow my own meds for myself and only myself and I do like to share.  I could

not even find 1 person to sell a bag to unless my life depended upon it and even then my chances are not good.  I could not even afford a

CG to be honest.  CG work hard and I 100% believe they should be paid fairly and nothing is for free, or should be expected to be.  Even on the

lowest end I couldn't afford even 1 oz a month under a CG.  So... I trudge along striving to grow my own. 

That said, I am not the only one in this position, many are far worse off.  I say this as a means to make the point that even though Prop 1

"allows" anyone who wants to grow plants that option there is a plethora of reasons many folks cannot do so.  Prop 1 opens up options for

those able/ willing to grow yet it also creates a funneling to the dispensaries for those who don't.   Michigan economy is poor, very poor.

Creating a system that forces people with limited options to shop at dispensaries paying %16 tax (in the beginning) is criminal imho.

It creates a system of dependence on these shops.  Once folks are dependent... well... let's raise the taxes.  The cost will be so that

people such as myself will be forced yet again to the black market and criminal activity in the eyes of the law.  I really don't care

what that prop say... I've seen/ experienced what really happens.  Let's take a look at what happened with Prop 1 2008 (MMMP)

umm, yeah.  

On the surface this looks to be like something great for people who do not have qualifying conditions to participate in the MMMP.

As stated... I have more doubts than I do affirmations that this will be true. 

 

1 hour ago, Limos said:

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say that if MI could’ve done better it would’ve done so by now.

 

If we look at who was involved in writing Prop 1 language... we get clues as to who will profit most from this proposal.  Look into where

the funding came from also... boy, that's an eye opener.  People who care only for their personal gain will not write a proposal that does

anything other than to create profit for themselves and their cronies.  It sounds good in writing but in the end... who profits and who gets screwed. 

I can say this, I talk with anyone who will listen while on my travels.  I care not if it's the old lady choosing tomatoes in the produce section, the

young cashier, the couple at the head shop (that was an interesting exchange :) ) etc, etc... I rarely miss an opportunity speak with strangers about

cannabis as medicine and the laws etc et al.  Cannabis is "out of the closet" now and people are generally very receptive and want to talk/ learn.

This encourages me of course haha. 

 

"legal" and "lawful" are two vastly different animals.  "legal" creates a system of criminality if you are caught outside of what they say is "ALLOWED".

Far to many have been arrested/ jailed and run though the legal system and understand this concept from a personal standpoint.

 

When will we gain the wherewithal to stand up and say this doesn't jive... what I do with my body is my choice???  Stop putting restrictions

and "allowances" upon my human rights. 

 

When has any gov't entity done anything except to tax and criminalize us?  Experience tells me that what 'they say' and what 'they' do

are vastly different and always fall to me getting the shaft.

 

I cannot in good conscience vote yes on Prop 1.

 

Okay, that's it until I get my grievances outlined to present properly :)

 

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imiubu

I said I would get with a friend more knowledgeable than I, to break down my concerns more succinctly.  He was having health issues and is now on vacation and I'm not

sure if we'll have ample enough time to present a solid argument against Prop 1 prior to the election.

For that, I do apologize.

 

I am basing my distrust upon past experience of how our gov't/ leo treated the MMMA and pure gut instincts.

Every cell of my being screams NO to this proposal.

If voted in, our gov't has their hand firmly in the proverbial "cookie jar" and after that, we the people will not be able to remove it without more unity than we now possess.

I say, no way.

We can and should write a better proposal IMHO.

 

In the mean time, I'll post some of the things occurring in "legal" States to support my voting NO on Prop 1 2018 come Nov. 6.

 

OREGON:

https://cannaclatch.wordpress.com/2018/05/31/operation-bait-switch-oregon/

Posted on May 31, 2018 by Canna Clatch

“Operation Bait and Switch” executed by “Team Scared Mother”

May 30th, 2018

 

Oregon’s Cannabis Ecosystem has experienced a Miscarriage By a Group of Scared Mothers

 

The Oregon Liquorhuana Control Bureau has released a notice that they will be suspending the intake of NEW APPLICATIONS for all new licensing under the LIQUORHUANA Bureau.

The emailer continued that there are upwards of 2000 medical grow-sites who fit the profile of a METRC-necessary cultivation company and are mandated to pay the fee (480$) and begin logging data into the seed to sale system regarding their patients’ medicine.  They have until July 1st to complete their METRC registration or run afoul of program guidelines and risk termination and criminal charges.

 

To many of us, this “capping” does not come as a surprise.  The emailer makes it sound as though ALL LICENSING taken in after June 15th will not be processed, unless it is a renewal.  Many of us assumed that cultivation licensing would be capped, in a stairstepped fashion with the largest canopy licenses getting the cap first.

This hard stop though creates an economic ripple effect in an already “whip-sawed” cannabis economy.  The execution of “legal cannabis” in Oregon has a been a horrid miscarriage of fairness, justice, and equality.  This capping – shows the pure mis-management at the top echelons of the Oregon Liquohuana Bureau.  This capping shows the pure contrast between what Oregon voters voted on with Proposition 91 and what they were served by the Ginny Burdick / Margolis lobby train.

 

Overproduction of cannabis is a MISNOMER – it doesn’t actually exist.  The demand for cannabis is off-the-charts-high as urban centers where incomes are very high are meeting relaxed cultures towards consumption – this creates a huge demand for top-dollar cannabis products all over the country as young and old successful professionals begin spending their vast amounts of excess income on cannabinoid products.

 

Oregonians voted approval for Proposition 91 by a margin of 6% and very little of the original incentive for voting for the law exists today in Oregon:

  Firstly, residency was lobbied out of the bill, opening the gates for saturation to occur before the native-Oregonians have a chance to get a finger-hold within the new economy.

Secondly, medical program rules were safeguarded within the bill when it was voted on, but the first thing that happened was that Oregon Medical Marijuana Dispensaries were going to be subjugated by the LIQUORHUANA BUREAU with potency and packaging bureaucracy.

Thirdly, extraction artists & hashishins were coerced into a LIQUORHUANAPROCESSOR LICENSING SYSTEM that checkerboarded the state by county – effectively orphaning many long-time extraction companies that were well  regarded within the medical economy.  (this move effectively hijacks the whole medical economy due to the fact that everything in contemporary cannabis ebbs and flows with extraction and hashing, and resin concentration)

 

The mis-guided regulators that made up the Salem “Liqhorhuana Sub-Committee” have shown us that they are unable or unwilling to respect the pre-existing rights of patients over the pure lust for excise tax money.

 

Growing the government seems to be the number one priority for prohibitionist-minded regulators of the Salem Bureaucracy.  With all of the “TO-DO” about Rules and Advisory Committees  – it appears that Oregon bureaucrats have derailed one of the most authentically experienced and sophisticated cannabis communities and economies within the whole USA.

 

What are the metrics of success for commodifying a natural medicine and therapeutic herb?

ANSWER:  GET MONEY, FUCK PATIENTS

Kate Brown, Ginny Burdick, Ann Lininger, Amy Margolis make up team “SCARED MOTHER” who executed “OPERATION BAIT & SWITCH” in Oregon as medical patients, caregivers, growers, and good-willed voters gave their approval to naively allow LIQUOR CONTROL and a small cadre of heavily inculcated “do-gooders” took to the task of “protecting everyone” from the menace of “REEFER”.

 

Today’s announcement by the OLCC is both unsurprising and completely exasperating at the same time.  No, we aren’t surprised that they enabled a cap.  What’s surprising is the authoritarian nature of the rule, having never consulted the new OREGON CANNABIS RULES COMMISSION who would have likely advocated for a  systematic step-down of licensing availability – starting with large canopy cultivation.

 

Why are processor / wholesaler licenses also being capped?

The LIQUORHUANA Bureau would like you to think that they are better able to process renewals if there aren’t so many new license applications coming in.

What’s sad is – nobody wants to simply or eradicate licensing as a means to decrease the overhead of licensing – the boilerplate solution is to cap all new licensing – creating an even more arbitrary and artificial cannabis marketplace here in Oregon.

 

Remember, we somehow legalized cannabis without consumption, and now, we’re somehow going to keep people from growing analog cannabis while not offering a way to license and begin operating “above board” as everyone seems to like to call it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

More recently in Washington:

https://www.kiro7.com/news/local/pot-industry-caught-off-guard-by-new-ban-on-some-edibles/847406463

 

Pot industry caught off guard by new ban on some edibles

By: John Knicely

Updated: Oct 5, 2018 - 5:25 PM

 

Leaders in Washington’s legal marijuana industry say they were caught off guard by new rules banning certain pot edibles.  The Washington State Liquor and

Cannabis Board released its new ruling on Oct. 4 after admitting it had been approving products considered especially appealing to children.

 

The LCB listed gummy products and hard candies of any style, shape or size as especially appealing to children.

 

“Getting the news this week is very scary,” Craft Elixirs owner Jamie Hoffman told KIRO 7.  “It's very scary for our future.”

 

Craft Elixirs, in Seattle, has been making marijuana-infused hard candies and gummies for four years and employs 14 people. 

 

It just got approval from the LCB for a new product two months ago.

 

All labels and products for marijuana edibles must be resubmitted.

 

Uncle Ike's Pot Shop owner Ian Eisenberg told KIRO 7 the new rules caught him and others in the industry completely off guard.  

He says edible pot products are about 20% of their sales.

 

“And the edibles that will be banned are probably 60% to 70% of the entire edibles market,” Eisenberg said. 

 

Marijuana edibles like chips, beverages, baked goods and spices will still be allowed. Chocolates, caramel, cookies and mints will have restrictions.  

 

They must be in original color, in the shape of a bar or a ball and can’t have frosting or sprinkles.

 

Read the full review here:

https://lcb.wa.gov/sites/default/files/publications/Marijuana/infused_products/Marijuana-Infused-Edible-Presentation-10-3-2018.pdf

 

The Washington Poison Center says in 2017, 43% of marijuana poison calls were for edible products, but they don't specify which type.  

See states on marijuana poison calls here:

https://www.wapc.org/wp-content/uploads/2017-Cannabis-TTRU.pdf

 

Hoffman fully supports cracking down on products appealing to kids, but she says hers aren't, including the ones the board just approved.

 

“I'm hopeful they didn't make a grievous error and approve something that I went and purchased $35K in packaging for,” Hoffman said.  

“That they're going to say, ‘Oh, changed our mind' in a couple weeks."

 

The rule change goes into effect Jan. 1, and stores have until April 3 to sell the remaining inventory of banned items.

 

“If we lose the ability to make these candies, we'll be out of business,” Hoffman said.  “There's no question about it.” 

 

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

 

 

 

 

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Limos

I’ll be honest I’m not swayed either way here. I understand the scope of the proposal and why it’s more BS but isn’t it less BS than we have now in MI? 

 

I have children that are now in and going into college that might decide to use cannabis recreationally...why would I want to risk them catching  a charge for simple possession when it’s close to being null and void? Again only if they decide to explore cannabis...they are not currently using. 

 

Change my mind

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GoodEnergyGrower
10 hours ago, Limos said:

I’ll be honest I’m not swayed either way here. I understand the scope of the proposal and why it’s more BS but isn’t it less BS than we have now in MI? 

 

I have children that are now in and going into college that might decide to use cannabis recreationally...why would I want to risk them catching  a charge for simple possession when it’s close to being null and void? Again only if they decide to explore cannabis...they are not currently using. 

 

Change my mind

 

Good Day @Limos,

 

I am on the fence.  I was a resident of Colorado for the Recreational vote and I voted yes for legalization.  I moved there for access to cannabis for my seizures.  After the vote and after the first shops opened up it was exciting for everyone.  Then the side effects started to happen.  Rent, and housing costs went up.  And the amount of people moving to Colorado was overwhelming, it is actually what made me move.  My rent for a 2 bedroom went from 1200 a month to 2100 a month in a matter of 4 months due to the rising costs of everything.  Open spaces began to be sold and developed on.  I would go to the grocery store and 75 "Street Kids" would be in the bathrooms bathing themselves and brushing their teeth, and it was sad because they were not nice at all, they just trashed everything so they could go beg for "anything green" money or cannabis

 

What broke my heart especially was how the people who needed high quality medicinal cannabis, had a hard time getting it (let's remember the medical patients and miracles this plant brings, is the reason legalization was even talked about.)  It was hard for me to find CBD oil as well as organically grown cannabis that wasn't rushed either in the growing or curing process, CBD products were priced higher than everything else.  Investors from all walks and corners of the Earth came to make a buck.  The waste and pollution the grow facilities create due to little regulation on chemical ferts and Pest management was sad.  I was in the hospital because my throat closed up after smoking buds sprayed with Eagle20. 

 

I can take a step back and realize that some want it to be as free to grow as a tomato and there are some that want to send you to hell for using it.  In knowing that, it is hard to find the middle ground.  I would like to see room made for small time growers to be able to sell their product at farmers market style gatherings where people are carded to be able to enter the market, just like a small time farmer can take fruits and veggies to sell on saturday at the park.

 

Also, in Michigan we need to protect our water, wildlife and land.  This legalization will effect the natural balance up here and quick.  Folks living on the coasts of this country Cali, Florida, east and west are looking for new place to be.  Michigan is going to explode in population and legalization will only accelerate that...seeing what it did to Colorado this is what I am most fearful of,  I see it happening already up here in Northern Michigan, people are buying up southern facing land, as well as china buying acreage since they outlawed logging and timber industry there.   Development will be rushed and not well thought out.  Boulder, CO is selling off there natural open spaces and parks for development, how sad.

 

If the law said, Organically grown only, and try and get the infrastructure and planning to where most could grow their product outside limiting the use of electricity I would be all for it.  It is a plant it needs to be grown outside for the good of everyone and everything.

 

I vote no for the fact that, the proposal as written is mostly laying out rules for business.....more could be written in to protect the plant and the Earth.

 

But I may vote yes, for the fact that this could stop a lot of arrests from having this plant, like @Limos said.  But the Earth and freedom are worth fighting for.  The government is in the wrong for arresting people for a plant, just like they were when slavery was legal....it is hard but do not bend for their ignorance.  Being arrested for simple possesion is BS, yes I agree....but the biggest pile of bs is the fact that it is illegal, and some may think an even larger pile of bs is to regulate and let the elites capitalize when they are already capitalizing on the prison system...pfeeewwww sometimes I realize the matrix we are in.  

 

Free the plant, let it grow, straight up and it will be a yes from me.  The fact that the Government abolished it, then want you to vote to legalize it, aka regulate it really makes me mad.  Give the small farm a shot to grow their own and sell their own it is a yes from me.   Write a proposal up where 90% talks about the regulation and tax revenue and job creation, those are elite dog whistles, it is a no from me.

 

Having "access" to a plant we have had access to for millions of years even though it is illegal, and voting to let the elites take the profit for it is a no from me.....they already sell you water in bottles, they already sell canned air for people to breath in China....when will it stop!!! ?   794 military bases around the world, public servants becoming millionaires off of tax money....taxes and state profit should never be the reason....money motivation means they are coming for the taking.....look at the timeline.. the whole thing.....soon nothing will be free, we will have to get a licence to be in love.

 

As you can see trying to make sense out of non-sense can be exhausting.....plant is a plant, let it grow.  

 

 

Edited by GoodEnergyGrower

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Limos

Thanks for chiming in @GoodEnergyGrower there’s a lot to unpack there but let me hit a few briefly. 

 

Can you imagine the influx of people to a state that regulates like a tomato? Lol it would be insane for sure. Growing pains are gonna come with it no matter how it rolls out. 

 

I am in the same boat as you as far as seizures and the need for organically grown Meds. The thing I’ve found is...you must grow for yourself to be absolutely sure of quality & supply. 

 

If I were to be stuck growing outside only it would be a challenge for sure plus can you imagine the pollen lol the days of sinsemilla would be gone. 

 

Regardless, nothing else is on the table now just this prop. Again if the will of the people is something better then why can’t it come later? Can you imagine what this would look like if our legislature came up with it? It’s possible they Could come up with something in the next cycle...4 big farms type stuff...no home grows. Know what I’m saying? 

Edited by Limos

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GoodEnergyGrower
1 hour ago, Limos said:

Thanks for chiming in @GoodEnergyGrower there’s a lot to unpack there but let me hit a few briefly. 

 

Can you imagine the influx of people to a state that regulates like a tomato? Lol it would be insane for sure. Growing pains are gonna come with it no matter how it rolls out. 

 

I am in the same boat as you as far as seizures and the need for organically grown Meds. The thing I’ve found is...you must grow for yourself to be absolutely sure of quality & supply. 

 

If I were to be stuck growing outside only it would be a challenge for sure plus can you imagine the pollen lol the days of sinsemilla would be gone. 

 

Regardless, nothing else is on the table now just this prop. Again if the will of the people is something better then why can’t it come later? Can you imagine what this would look like if our legislature came up with it? It’s possible they Could come up with something in the next cycle...4 big farms type stuff...no home grows. Know what I’m saying? 

Great points @Limos, really made me think.  

 

I hear exactly what you are saying.  and a lot of my ignorance comes from having a hard time understanding exactly how and when certain things can be done in the legislative process, and a big bias of mine comes from my deep desire to be self sufficient and my cultural beliefs that stem from that foundation.

 

But you are absolutely spot on with your points.  As far as realizing a Utopian society would not be created with a passage of any laws.....the way the legalization is proposed in this fits our economic structure and precedent of laws thus far.  And it would be great to just be able to grow your own medicine and let society decide the rest for themselves within reason;)  

 

If it is crowded up here in salmon and morrell season....i couldn't image harvest season in these vast forest if it wasn't regulated in some way!!...lol.

 

 

@Limos  thanks for reading all that and giving your perspective and insight, it made me think and gain perspective myself.  Respect.

Edited by GoodEnergyGrower

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imiubu

Thanks @Limos and @GoodEnergyGrower  I have considered both sides of this and I do recognize the reasons that some

folks will vote yes.

I spoke with my step mom yesterday and asked how she was leaning.  She is 72 and my pops is 81, both have never used

cannabis yet they would like to try medibles.  She said she if for it and will be voting yes.  I get it, she and dad could go to

a 'pot shop' purchase their meds and go on with life.  Not being in fear of loosing their insurance for testing positive is a

very real life concern.  I give her kudos for considering the issue and making a decision.

 

I however disagree for all the reasons that GEG stated, and occasionally I waffle a bit due to reasons Limos has brought forward.

 

In the end, every fiber of my orgainic being screams NO!  Just because it's what we have now doesn't make it good legislation. 

I cannot in good conscience again vote yes to bad legislation.

Will our legislators then write a bill/ bills to legalized cannabis if we vote this down.  Oh, most certainly.  That effort will take at

least 1 year.  Then, it will take another 2 or more years to implement such laws.  This gives we the people time to put forth a

new initiative.

We also have the MMFLA that can work independently whether prop 1 is voted in or not.

 

I know MI can do better than this proposition, we do not need to follow other States with this 'legalization' bs.  We could

actually make cannabis LAWFUL.  I think folks don't understand the difference and the media as always has been hyping

this to be such a 'good' thing, that the sheeples only hear how this will be great for our State and don't think it through.

 

I would think this way no matter what and working with End Prohibition Michigan ballot initiative committee is not the reason

for my no vote.  I would not be working with EPMi though, if I thought this prop 1 was good legislation. 

 

If we have cannabis treated as a 'tomato' MI may see an influx of people moving here but... it wouldn't be to make mega

millions.. it would be to grow cannabis as a 'food' so to speak and we have a tax system in place already for such commodities.

Makes sense to me to treat it so and not SIN (excize) tax we the people to death just because we choose a medicinal herb.

The folks that would flock to MI would be of an entirely different mindset, for community and advancing healthy growing methods

etc...  They will not be coming here to destroy our state but rather enhance it.

Prop 1 invites the opposite type of people and cuts us little guys out and still criminalize us.  Win win for them.  A royal screwing

for us... still.

My brother lives in Seattle and currently pays 43% for his herb at the 'pot shops'.  Seattle has a very high cost of living and they

can afford this high taxes... MI however... cannot.

 

 

 

 

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Limos

@imiubu you still get to grow though that’s a point you keep skipping over. Again why is this bad for people not trying to set up a grow? & isn’t there a provision for a mini grow in there as well? 150 plants or something? 

 

Seems like we we need to place Chess not checkers. Again, why not have this while the next move is being worked on? Potentially blocking some serious restrictive ideas in Lansing.

 

On the influx of people...there will be some of what you say but all the things with property & cost of living will go up it has to. It will not be a utopia of people just looking to grow their own Meds. People will go ape shit and there will be lots of them. Hell, I’d plant a field myself lol

 

@GoodEnergyGrower thats a very valid comparison. I’m all for sensible conservation of natural resources such as water & wild game. If we had fields and fields of cannabis without some sensible regulations how many do you think would be spraying eagle20 or Forbid by the truck load? 

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imiubu

IMHO along with being "allowed" to grow will come inspections, and more rules/ regs on said home grows under prop 1.

 

Once gov't and big corp has their hands in the cookie jar, how will we then extract said hands from our pockets.

 

I see beyond the wording by referring to history.  I know what they have done and I can pretty much calculate what they will do.

In the end... we the people end up getting jacked.

 

There is still a plethora of 'grey' area in Prop 1 that will provide the court/ jail/ prison system to flourish.

 

And... we start off the top w/ 16% taxes?  Those who use dispensaries are paying for 2 transport and 2 testing fees...

how that alone doesn't make ppl go... hu?  wth? 

 

IMHO home growing will be so tightly regulated it will become unfavorable to do so, ergo leading folks to go back underground

(criminals) or buy corp grown weed at the pot shops.  To me it's like leading live stock to slaughter.

 

Maybe I'm a just dreamer.  But... I live for logic and reason and voting yes for this prop holds none for me.  It's bad juju IMHO.

 

I know I don't explain myself very well in text. 

 

 

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Limos

Alright @imiubu I understand your points but what do we have now? Why is it better to keep what we have now? 

 

It’s not gonna be a straight path to tomato plant. 

 

There are many...the majority of people in MI that are very ill informed about cannabis and for them to go from zero to 100 is just not gonna happen. I totally agreed with the language of Aborgate but did I think it had any chance of passing a vote...no it would not. Opposition would simply say...what about the children & it would be over before it started. 

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knucklehead bob

This is in Canada , but it won't happen here with MI LEGALIES , right ? 

 

44247853_2241839875889990_37344096178877

 

Today is the last day that Cannabis is illegal in Canada!
...Or is it?

FACT: The current Canadian laws include 8 criminal offences for cannabis. The new Canadian laws include 45 criminal offences for cannabis. Though much of the Cannabis Act will be hard to enforce, there will still be many ways for Canadians to face fines, arrest or jail time. In some situations the penalties have been increased. 

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/cannabis/article-canada-needs-to-clear-the-air-and-wipe-away-criminal-records-for/?fbclid=IwAR1SsRfUDUhUd5VlJwgWq0xU7m4y-3ugq971f557LTv7IWbNil3-SQe0PRw

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